The following is a transcript of an interview with Filippo Grandi, the U.N. high commissioner for refugees, that aired Sunday, March 6, 2022, on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Christina Ruffini in Poland, thank you. We want to go now to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees Filippo Grandi. He’s at a refugee shelter at the Ukrainian-Polish border. Good afternoon to you, High Commissioner. You have said this is the fastest moving refugee exodus since World War II. What are the numbers now? What are you seeing?
UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES FILIPPO GRANDI: As of today, we’ve passed the terrible mark of 1.5 million refugees, and this in 10 days, essentially from Ukraine into five neighboring countries. The bulk here in Poland, where I am now. And if I think of past decades, I cannot think in Europe of a faster exodus of people. Not since the end of the Second World War, I would say.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What are you seeing in terms of the state that people are showing up at these shelters in. What do they need?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Men of military age, which is from 18 to 60, cannot leave the country. They are in conscription and they have to stay there to defend their country. So it’s mostly women, children, elderly, many disabled people and they are above all, frightened, traumatized. These are people that until just a few days ago, had a perfectly normal life. And in- in a matter of hours, everything is thrown apart. And they have to be on the road. Very difficult journeys, very traumatizing journeys through war torn Ukraine, up to the border and now here where they’re safe. But of course, they’re separated from families. Uncertain about their future. So I would say that- that the trauma and anguish is the most defining feature of the moment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can civilians safely get out of the country? How many people would be refugees but are instead displaced and at risk right now?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: These statistics are impossible to- to- to define precisely because we don’t have access. We are, you know, UN agencies and Red Cross are inside the country, but they can not move everywhere. This is why the UN and the Red Cross are trying to negotiate safe passage to the most affected places. But up to now, we have not succeeded in getting the necessary guarantees and respect for the ceasefire. That’s the only way that we can send convoys in, bring supplies and, if necessary, bring people out. But people are moving also from other places that are even less impacted. Sometimes they move before it happens because they know it might happen to their location. So this is a- an extremely messy situation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who is firing on those safe passages?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Well, there is bombardment by the Russian forces, and this is what people are mostly afraid of. Yesterday I was in Moldova and other neighboring countries. People were coming from the city of Odessa, where there is no bombing- bombardment yet. But sirens have sounded over the day and people are so afraid that they just leave their homes, especially people with children. They want to bring them to safety.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, High Commissioner, you’ve been dealing with these record refugee numbers all around the world even before this happened in Europe. What happens now that you have this massive influx? What does the UN need? I mean, what kind of resources do you need?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Well, let me state the obvious. First, we need this to stop. We need this to stop because without the war stopping, people will just continue to pour out of the country. One and a half million is difficult enough to manage, even for relatively stable and prosperous countries in Europe. Imagine, however, if we go further up and we will, we will no doubt if it doesn’t stop. Now for- for the people that are on the movement. First of all, we need to get more supplies inside Ukraine. And for that, we need at least some areas of tranquility where we can deliver help and then here for the mass of refugees. A lot is needed, you know, any kind of relief supplies. We need cash to help people. We need logistical support. European countries have means and organization. But if this number of people grows, we will need more international support. And at some point, if people stay here for a long period of time, there will have to be other countries offering places to host refugees, even outside Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tell me about that because there was massive political backlash in 2015 when Syrian refugees poured into Europe. There are charges of racism of discrimination. Poland, just in the past year, has tried to build a wall to keep refugees out coming from the Middle East, from Africa. What is different now and what is happening to those refugees?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: I think there is, of course, at the moment, a colossal emergency. There is a certain- there are certain geopolitical factors at play, but I- I- I look at the future. And you’re right, we’ve been struggling with convincing Europe to take- to open the doors for more people, not to push back people. But I think that this crisis, and I’ve said it before, carries an important message that anybody can become a refugee. Very suddenly. And that any country can become a frontline refugee receiving country needing the support of others. We want- Europe is learning fast to work together in so many ways in response to this crisis. I hope that this working together will apply to all people seeking refuge in Europe, not only now which is happening, but in the future as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you very much, Mr. High Commissioner, for your time today and good luck to you. We’ll be back in a moment.
