The following is a transcript of an interview with CBS News chief election and campaign correspondent Robert Costa that aired on “Face the Nation” on June 11, 2023.
JOHN DICKERSON: We turn now to the first of two Republican governors joining us today, New Hampshire’s Chris Sununu, who announced last week that he would not be a candidate for President. Welcome, Governor, thank you for being with us. You’ve taken a look at the indictment. Do you think that the current front runner of the Republican nomination should be given the responsibility to handle the most sensitive national security documents, again? With re-election?
GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU: Well, I guess we’re gonna find out. Yeah, I mean, look, if- if half of what they say they can prove is provable, then he’s got a real problem on our hands. And it’s self-inflicted. Let’s remember that this was- he had every chance in the world to hand all those files and documents back. He did just the opposite. He bragged about keeping him. So this is very self-inflicted. I mean, I guess we’ll find out of the 37 or whatever charges there are, how many he’s potentially found guilty on, so we’ll- we’ll see where it goes, and what’s disqualifying and not. But I think you know, that last segment you had was- was really telling. It’s just another example, that he could win the nomination, but cannot, mathematically cannot, win in November of 24, which is why the Republican Party needs to look to another candidate, and they’ve got a lot of great options before them.
JOHN DICKERSON: This seems to provide an opportunity for them to not look to another candidate, because they are rallying around him. I want to read you something- from the National Review, which wrote about this indictment, “It is impossible to read the indictment against Trump in the Mar-a-Lago document case and not be appalled by it. The way he handled classified documents as an ex-president and responded to the attempt by federal authorities to reclaim them.” You seem to share that view, but many- the majority in your party and the majority of public officials, have exactly the opposite view.
SUNUNU: Yeah, so this is the problem that the Department of Justice has, and- and whether you want to agree with it or not, doesn’t matter. The reality is a lot of people are looking at that kind of cloud that sits over the DOJ, and says there has been a little too much politics in that department over the past couple of years, there’s been a lot of allegations of political handling. So they have the responsibility to say, look, this is different. This is much more severe. And I think they have to do that.
JOHN DICKERSON: Let me ask you this, Governor. But-first of all, the Department of Justice is investigating the sitting president, there’s a special counsel. So the same- same standard is applied to him. And isn’t- isn’t it not the Department of Justice that’s applying a different standard, but the politicians who are the same ones, in some cases, Kevin McCarthy and others, who are applying a standard to Donald Trump that they did not apply to others? Most, you know, Hillary Clinton being the primary one.
[CROSSTALK]
SUNUNU: Yeah, but you can’t equivo- yeah, if I may, you can’t equivocate the two. Right. So you have close on- on the under- you can’t equate the two sorry, but look, those are politicians, they’re- they’re on the Republican side, for the most part, they’re going to defend a political position. The DOJ has a responsibility to be above it all, and should be, and historically has been, but recently has not been. And so the average American watches this. You and I are in the weeds, right? We’re talking about this issue all the time, over the last 48 hours. The average American is looking at this thing for 90 seconds. And they’re saying, wait a minute, they found files over there. They found a server in Clinton’s bathtub over there. They found files over here. What’s the difference?–
SUNUNU: And there is a very big difference.
[CROSSTALK]
JOHN DICKERSON: What’s the difference? Right
SUNUNU: There’s a huge difference. But it has to be explained to the American people.
JOHN DICKERSON: But I mean, Governor, that’s like saying New York and New Hampshire are the same because they have the word new in their titles. I mean, there are great differences in terms of obstruction of justice in the- in the cases of, say, President Biden, and the case of President- former President Trump. So –
SUNUNU: Let me ask you this –
[CROSSTALK]
JOHN DICKERSON: But we’re going to run out of time, unfortunately. So hold on, we’re gonna get you on the other side of that, that half hour and we’ll come back to this. We’re going to take a break. Stay right there. We’ve got more when we come back to “Face The Nation.”
**COMMERCIAL BREAK**
JOHN DICKERSON: Welcome back to “Face The Nation.” We return now to the Republican governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu. Governor, we were talking about the uniform application of standards, whether it’s by politicians, or the Department of Justice. The former Attorney General, Bill Barr weighed in on this question on Fox News. When he was asked about whether this is politically motivated, he said, I defended the president on Russia gate. I stood up and called out Alvin Bragg, that’s the Manhattan district attorney, politicizing the hit job. And I have spoken out for 30 years about the abuse of criminal justice process to influence politics. But this is simply not true. So you have the former Attorney General saying that these charges of weaponization are not true. I wonder what you think a responsible politician looking at the evidence before us should say about the Department of Justice, and whether there’s any danger in saying weaponization when you have a former Attorney General saying, no, this is on the level?
SUNUNU: No, I- I think that’s a great point. I think Bill Barr is absolutely right. I- I don’t see this as being political. But you- But again, the point I keep going back to is, the- the average person may- may still think it’s political, and a lot of people clearly do. And so if you’re going to take unprecedented steps like this, as valid as they are, as valid as they are, then they have to, again, acknowledge the responsibility of showing all sides of it, showing how it’s not political, not just saying, Don’t worry, it’s not political. They’ve done that before, and it- it didn’t work out so well. So they have the responsibility of showing how it isn’t political, to give that calm, to give that confidence and that trust in the system. So when this goes forward, and if and when he is found guilty, there’s trust that it was done the right way,
JOHN DICKERSON: As a politician of good faith, what is one’s responsibility when surveying this? When you- when you know, it’s not a weaponiz- when you know, there’s no evidence of weaponization? What should you say to the public, the public may feel one thing, but if the facts of the case suggest more complexity and gray areas, what does a politician of good faith say to the public?
SUNUNU: Yeah, well, look, I- I’m- I’m a big believer, everyone has to be very straightforward and transparent about it and acknowledge the realities of the severity of these accusations. And- and these allegations, and the fact that they again, they’re very real, they’re self-inflicted, this is nothing like we’ve ever- anything we’ve seen before. And- and there’s very likely, I think, going to- going to come down to some type of guilty verdict on- on the President, at least on some of these charges. And so again, we all have that responsibility. Now, who takes that? Who wants to play political games? That’s I- I guess, everyone, unfortunately, you know, will- will tend to do that on both sides of the aisle, by the way, you just have to acknowledge both sides of this. You really do.
JOHN DICKERSON: And let me move on to the state of New Hampshire, the first primary. Does this- you want to change the conversation away from Donald Trump and to get some other candidates, and perhaps get another nominee. Does this focus in the rallying around the former President Trump make that more- more difficult?
SUNUNU: It makes it more difficult. But look, my- my message to all the candidates is very clear. You better come out, just as you- you acknowledge, you have to come out and ack- and they have to come out and acknowledge this is different. This is serious. Even- if even half of this stuff is true, he’s in real trouble. And it is self-inflicted. And I just see too many of the candidates trying to walk around it, we’ll see what happens. To your point, you have to be clear and transparent. You’re running against this guy. He’s whooping you by 40 points. Everybody needs to come out in concert. So it’s not just Chris Christie hitting Donald Trump, or this candidate hitting Donald Trump. It is a party message. That’s very, very important. Because Donald Trump doesn’t represent the Republican Party. He doesn’t rep- he only represents himself. And so that- that is shown when all the candidates come out equally and unequivocally talking about this issue in the right way.
JOHN DICKERSON: Did you mention that to Governor Burgum when you had breakfast with him this morning?
SUNUNU: Absolutely. Look, Doug is an incredible governor, I think he’s going to be a great candidate, and he’s hitting the ground running with- with all the things that you need to- to be successful, and- and a lot of the other candidates are- are kind of turning their machines on and- and starting to hit the ground, so we’ll see where it all goes. But I think Doug’s a- a great governor and he’s gonna- he’s gonna- gonna be a spark to watch this fall.
JOHN DICKERSON: Another person you met with this week got into the race, former Vice President Mike Pence. Here’s the thing that puzzles me, he is by every measure of the old style of politics, a good old fashioned conservative, and yet the polling consistently shows that he- though- though protesters that- they are- are- the- the- those who attacked the Capitol on January 6, called for his hanging, he seems to have paid a political price for that more than the person who led to the circumstances that had them call for his hanging, which is to say his former boss. What does that say about the nature of things?
SUNUNU: Well, look, all- all the candidates are a little bit different. But I think you have three candidates in a similar position. All great people, great candidates. Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, former Vice President Pence, these are all folks that were on the Trump team, right, and now they’re kind of off the team and- and they’re all running against him. So they each just have to make their cases, they know how to run a ground game. They know how to talk to folks with a- a sense of authenticity about what it is and what has changed between then and now, but each of those candidates are in, I think, a similar position, will have to make their case as to why they- they not just- or have earned the job, but what’s going to spark and what’s going to spark about beyond 5, 6, 7 percent in the polls to get people excited this fall.
JOHN DICKERSON: All right, Governor Chris Sununu, thank you so much for being here. We’ll be talking to you again for sure. Appreciate it. And we’ll be right back.
