The Israel-Hamas war is still raging and efforts are on to find a solution to this complex problem. Amid all this Palestinian PM Mohammad Shtayyeh spoke exclusively with WION’s Principal Diplomatic Correspondent Sidhant Sibbal.
Calling India a “close friend”, PM Mohammad Shtayyeh said, “India is welcome to play a constructive role” amid the ongoing conflict in Gaza.
“We know that India has been of good support to Palestine, whether through certain infrastructure projects or politically or through other means, but most important is that the people of India have been always in full support of Palestine and Palestine is very dear to the hearts of Indian people,” he said during the interaction.
The PM detailed the ongoing situation in Gaza, pointing out that, out of ‘25,000 Palestinians who have been killed, 70% are women and children. Sixty-two thousand Palestinians are injured, and 1.7 million Palestinians have been forced out of their homes.’
PM Mohammad Shtayyeh said, “India has been helping us here besides humanitarian aid to Gaza. There are quite a number of initiatives that have been taken by the Indian government, Prime Minister Modi and his government.”
Since the conflict started, India has extended aid to Palestine, delivering 70 tonnes of humanitarian assistance. This includes 16.5 tonnes of vital medicine and medical supplies in two installments. Additionally, New Delhi has contributed USD 5 million. In December, USD 2.5 million were disbursed towards the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).
Sidhant Sibal: If you can detail what is the current situation in the Gaza Strip…
Mohammad Shtayyeh: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate, India is very dear to Palestine and our historical relationship has gone back to the days of Yasser Arafat and Indira Gandhi and all what has followed. Also, with Prime Minister Modi and our president and myself, we are fully engaged and India has been a close friend for Palestine all the time. Another important issue, I’m happy to address your audience, Mr Sibbal. The situation in Gaza is extremely, extremely catastrophic. This is a situation in Gaza which is a tiny area of 364 kilometers, with 2.3 million people. The most densely populated part of the world. Gaza strip has been under attack since October 7th and also as a reaction to the Hamas attack on Israel. The situation is as follows. Until yesterday, we had 25,000 Palestinians who were killed. Seventy per cent of them are women and children. Sixty-two thousand Palestinians are injured, and 1.7 million Palestinians have been forced out of their homes. Two hundred and n 81 thousand housing units have either partially or fully destroyed.
Watch: Israel-Hamas war: Negotiations underway for month-long ceasefire
Also, the Israeli minister of energy has switched off the water and electricity supply. Gaza is under siege. Food that is entering through the UN system is only 6 to 8% of what is needed. And most important is that the whole region lacks medicines. Twenty-seven out of 35 hospitals are out of service. Some of them have been fully destroyed. Others do not have any fuel to operate, and the situation is extremely catastrophic. On October 7, the temperature in Gaza was 32 degrees centigrade. And today, it’s raining. It is very cold. People were in t-shirts and now they are really suffering in the cold of the Mediterranean and also under the rain, living in tents which do not really protect them. And shelter is not available for most of the people who have been forced out of their homes from north Gaza and they are now all centered around Rafah area on the borders with Egypt, which has only one entry point of international aid, the Rafah crossing, that is the border between Palestine, Gaza and Egypt, that Israel is in full control of this area now.
There are five entry points to Gaza that Israel is blocking and international aid has been extremely slow and people are dying because of hunger. And people are dying because of lack of medicine, lack of water, lack of food, lack of shelter so those who might have not been killed by Israeli bombardment are facing death through other means. Very important for your audience, here in the west back, the Israeli army has created 700 checkpoints, also in this region, 641 Palestinians have been killed. Some of them are at the hands of the Jewish settlers, you know since 1967 Israel has a planted 285 Jewish settlements with 755,000 Jewish settlers who have been living illegally on an illegally expropriated by Syrian territory and Palestinian land that is privately owned by people and the situation in the West Bank where the army is encouraging into the refugee camps.
Here in Jenin area and quite a number of districts of the West Bank, there are also attacks on Al Aqsa Mosque, as well as the humiliation of a Christian pilgrimage who are here in Jerusalem and who have been visiting Jerusalem. So my dear friend Sibal, the situation in all Palestinian territory is extremely catastrophic. It is not we who are occupying Israel, it is Israel that is occupying our land and all Palestinians have been fighting for is a day for freedom, a day of freedom, a day of independence, and a day in which Palestinians live side by side with the Israelis in two situations. Situation in which one state for the Palestinians on the borders of 1967 with Jerusalem as its capital, this is the area that Israel occupied in 1967.
Sidhant Sibal: You’ve detailed the entire situation as to what is the current situation in Gaza. But are you hopeful that this situation will pacify? Are you positive about it or do you think that 2024 will see a prolonged situation which we have seen starting last year?
Mohammad Shtayyeh: Look, the Prime Minister of Israel Mr. Netanyahu, what he cares, is for his personal survival. And his tactic is that he wants to prolong the war as long as he can in order for him to stay in power.
So my prediction is that, as the Israelis have been saying also, this war will continue until the middle of the year, and then some security arrangements later. So if anyone wants to predict where things are heading, obviously 2024 is going to be not the year for peace, even though everybody is pushing in the direction of two states, but obviously the Israelis are not partners to this peace process. Israel now has not achieved anything of the goals that they have declared.
And only one thing they have achieved which is a total destruction of the region. And as I mentioned, 25,000 Palestinians killed, 62 injured and 281,000 Palestinian housing units destroyed. So they have not achieved the goals they have declared they want to achieve. Therefore, my prediction is that the war will continue or the aggression on our people will continue and maybe Israel will widen the sphere of the war in order for Netanyahu to continue surviving as a prime minister.
Sidhant Sibal: So we all know about the ongoing problem , the issues which started last year, it is something that is decades old as well. But what is the solution? In your view? Are we looking at some kind of a ceasefire, because this ongoing situation is a difficult situation. It cannot continue like this. There is a near consensus globally, at least on this issue. So, what kind of solution are we looking at, and do you think that a ceasefire is something that can be talked about? Are you looking at that?
Mohammad Shtayyeh: My dear friend, I don’t have to remind the Indian audience that the Indian people have pushed the British colonization and British occupation of India. So, all what Palestinians are looking for, and fighting for is one thing, independence. All we want is to live in our own state like any other nation in the world, and the international community, including India, has been calling for a two-state solution. This means state for the Palestinians. There is only one state that does exist, which is the state of Israel, it’s already there.
And so, what is needed now is the recognition of the State of Palestine and the end of Israeli occupation to the state of Palestine. Maybe a lot of people don’t know that Palestine is under direct military occupation. Palestinians are not occupying Israel. It’s the Israelis who are occupying Palestinian territory and therefore all the solution that we want is one thing, end of occupation, right of self-determination to the Palestinian people, Palestinians have the right to live in a sovereign, independent contiguous state of Palestine, and that’s only 22% of what used to be called Palestine before the creation of the State of Israel in 1948.
So, Palestinians have made a huge compromise by accepting only a state on 22% of what used to be Palestine in 1940. So, this is what we are fighting for, President Biden is in full support of the idea of two states, European leaders, India, Pakistan, Asia, China, Japan, Arab countries, you have international consensus on all these things that are pushing on the thing that is pushing for two states. The problem is that countries have been calling for two states for years.
Now it’s the moment that we implement, the two states that we put Israel under sanctions in order for Israel to accept a two-state solution to accept ending gets colonization of Palestinian territory and ending it’s a humiliation to the Palestinian people and ending the genocide, that Israel is committing. You know, my dear friend, Sibal, now South Africa has taken Israel to the International Court of Justice, where Israeli standing accused of committing atrocities and genocide against Palestinian people, when you have 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in 100 days. That’s a real massacre against our people. And as I said 70% of them are children and women.
Sidhant Sibal: So what kind of area domination that Israel has in Gaza according to you, if you can detail you have already talked about the ongoing situation in Gaza, but specifically, if you can talk about this…
Mohammad Shtayyeh: Israeli army is now occupying nearly most of Gaza except for one region, the Rafah area. So the Israeli army is there and as I told you, now Israel is trying to achieve quite a number of issues, one has been for the last 100 days, pushing Palestinians towards the Egyptian border so Israel wants to force the transfer of Palestinians out of Gaza. This Gaza, this is a very small Palestinian territory with 2.3 million people.
Israel wants quite a number of them out of Gaza into Egyptian territory, we and Egypt have been calling for the international community to build pressure on Israel, not to force transfer of our people. Second important issue. Israel blocking all entry points, we are pushing Israel to allow international aid to enter and the third is that Israel now is thinking of annexing certain parts of the this little tiny geography to create what they call buffer zone, when Israel or if Israel is creating these buffer zones, it means that the whole geography of Gaza is shrinking, and the number of people will be forced out.
So we are working hard with Egypt, with Jordan, with the international community not to allow Israel either to annex certain parts or to force transfer our people out of Gaza. But this is the Israeli plan. Of course. They always say that they want to eradicate hummus, I don’t think that’s something that is possible anyhow.
Sidhant Sibal: Now coming to the India bit, where do you see India and India giving a solution to the ongoing conflict, if you can talk about that. India has a good relationship with Palestine, and it also has a good relationship with Israel. So do you foresee India, playing an important role in pacifying the ongoing conflict?
Mohammad Shtayyeh: For sure, I know, Indian leadership, Prime Minister Modi and others and Minister of Foreign Affairs have been fully engaged, that I know there are contacts of course with us, I have made a phone call to the India leadership asking them to interfere in certain things that Israel is doing against our people. And I think Indian engagement is very important because of the work you said India does enjoy a good relationship with us and with the Israelis, and I think India can do a lot. Now Europe is working with certain Arab countries, mainly Saudi Arabia, US Jordan and Egypt and Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. And we are working together to come up with a plan based on an international conference and I think India, China, Russia, Europeans, Arabs, United States and other countries who should be in that international conference because my dear friend, look, we spent 30 years of negotiation with the Israelis and Israel continued along with the negotiation line, Israel continued to build settlements and fully and totally erode every possibility of a Palestinian state.
So now, we cannot go back to a negotiation that has been ongoing for 30 years. Now you need a different paradigm. We need a serious paradigm shift from talks with Israelis because our relationship with Israel is an asymmetrical relationship, Israel is too strong, fully supported by Washington and Palestinians, is weak, and we are under occupation. I mean, we’re strong with our determination, our will with our dignity. That’s a different story. But by military means, there is no balance of power. So, we need to remedy this asymmetrical relationship by the intervention of a third party we wanted, and we did call for an international conference.
That should take place soon in order for this conference to call upon Israel to end its occupation of the Palestinian Territories. And if Israel does not end its occupation of Palestinian territory, Israel should be put under sanctions, and I think India and other players are very important in this endeavour and this direction. So, India is welcomed to play a constructive role. And we know that India has been of good support to Palestine, whether through certain infrastructure projects or politically or through other means, but most important is that the people of India have always been in full support of Palestine and Palestine is very dear to the hearts of Indian people. So reflecting the will of the people and the will of the readership, India can do a lot.
Sidhant Sibal: Special message to the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, if you can talk about that, I mean, the Prime Minister of India has globally a kind of impressive conversation with his counterparts. He has a good friendship with the Israeli prime minister as well. So, any specific message you would like to give to the Indian Prime Minister?
Mohammad Shtayyeh: You know, we don’t send messages to Prime Ministers through the media. We send messages through diplomatic channels usually, and we communicate on phones and so on and so forth. But My message is to all of India and to the Prime Minister, that we need you and this is the moment where people have been standing solid for peace and justice. And I know India has been fighting for peace and justice for their own people all through history.
And I’m sure for our people as well. It’s the right moment. Where we call it for the two states. Yes, you know, India does recognize Palestine as a state, but Indian influence in the international political arena is very important. And I want the voice of India to be solid, in line with our voice for peace and justice, for Palestine for peace and justice for all.
And also, that Israel should be held accountable for all what they have been doing. And I think it will be very important if the Indian leadership will advise the Israelis to tell them to listen, Guys, where are you heading? Israel has tried so many means and ways and it has proven to be a failure. Israel has been employing security measures.
Security does not bring peace. It is peace that brings security to Israel and not the vice versa. And I think the Indian approach to these things is very important whether through the non-aligned movement, whether through the bilateral relations or whether through the unique relationship between India and the United States, Americans are now showing good words. All that is needed is, as I said, to move from statements to practical implementation of two states, they saw therefore, and I think our relationship is very unique with Indian people with their leadership. I know you’re coming to elections in May, and we are very aware of these realities.
And obviously states are driven by their national interests. We understand that but also we and India have been standing solid for peace and justice, on equal footing, on footing for a dignity of our people, and also to see and fight together for peace not only for Palestine, but in every single region of the world where conflict has to be eliminated and that we push for the sustainable development and we push for the current issues where Palestine can contribute , Palestine., this is the holy land for Christians, for Muslims for everybody, and this holy land should be land of peace, not fighting, and peace can only be achieved through ending Israeli occupation that has occurred on the Palestinian territory since 1967. Rest assured that the Indian leadership is very capable of making a difference when it comes to pushing for peace and justice.
Sidhant Sibal: So you initially mentioned that you reached out to the Indian side, you have held conversation, any specific proposal that you have given to the Indian side and additionally we have seen India sending humanitarian aid to Gaza to the people of Gaza. If you could talk about that.
Mohammad Shtayyeh: Yes, of course. Look, I mean, there is now an international effort to relieve Gaza. The situation, as I said, it’s catastrophic. I was notified by your representative here, the ambassador, the lady ambassador of India to Palestine, Renu Yadav, a very capable lady who has briefed us daily on an Indian position, on Indian assistance to Palestine, to Gaza.
And also, there are quite a number of infrastructure projects that are funded by India including a $30 million hospital which is something of a landmark in Palestine, it will be with an Indian flag in the heart of the Palestinian territory. So, there are quite a number of issues where, you know, India, as I said, can make a difference. We are communicating with the leadership through the diplomatic channels on these issues, but aid has been welcomed. And aid has been really received from India to Palestine and Gaza.
Sidhant Sibal: Hamas leader Khaled Mashal stating that Hamas has nothing to do with a two state solution? Do you look forward to a two state solution?
Mohammad Shtayyeh: Well, I think Mashal has been very clear he said that Hamas is ready to go along with the Palestinian, different Palestinian political factions, you know, Palestine has is a pluralistic society. We have 15 Palestinian political groups and political parties and political organizations, and Hamas is one of them. And therefore, of course, we want to have a unified political position. We should all call for one thing, which is a two-state solution and I think our communication before this war with Hamas, Hamas has accepted that idea of a two state solution of course, they are saying that we don’t want to recognize Israel.
That’s a different story, because now Israel does not recognize Palestine. Recognition should be mutual and not one party recognizing the other. Not up to Hamas, Fatah etc, it’s just Palestinian people collectively, and we are now engaging and before October 7th , we were engaging with Hamas to accommodate them, in the political arena, so that we could agree on tools of struggle. We have learnt from the Indian experience, the salt march, the resistance, these things are important when you don’t have balance of power, Palestine never gave up, and will not give up and will continue to fight through popular resistance, through peaceful means, through UN org, through international courts, we will not surrender. If tomorrow, Israel ends its occupation, all Palestinians will accept that, the problem is that it is ongoing, and Israel is destroying 2 state solutions.
Sidhant Sibal: If you can talk about India’s capacity building programs in Palestine…
Mohammad Shtayyeh: India has been helping us here besides humanitarian aid to Gaza. There are quite a number of initiatives that have been taken by the Indian Government, Prime Minister Modi and his government. It has to do with support for Palestinian economy and it has support for some education and the support for women empowerment and support for the medical and health sector. As I said through the construction of a hospital that’s a $30 million a project as well as some bilateral visits between us and Indian officials and so on. So India is an important player and this usually India is not a donor country, but for Palestine.
India has actually contributed in this direction and that is also part of building the state from bottom to top. We have been doing that for the last 30 years. I think the time has come in which we are continuing to build capacity from bottom to top in preparation for the manifestation of a Palestinian state on the ground. Now, it is the time that we do what I call reverse engineering. We have to put the ceiling first and then come to the ground which means that we need the international community, mainly the United States and Europe to recognize Palestine as a state and then we work together on the foundations that are already there. My dear friend, I should mention to you that Palestine has very rich history, That mean municipality of Hebron, or the municipality of Nablus are out of 100 years older than the state of Israel and the State of Israel was only created in 1948 , the institutions in Palestine go back to the Ottoman Period.
That’s, you know, hundreds of years ago. The issue for us is that we need to see an end to this occupation, the capacity is there, and the Palestinians are very capable. We have the highest university graduates in the region. Palestinians are very talented, highly educated. You see them with successful stories like Indians in all over the world and the Gulf countries, Indians and Palestinians have contributed a lot to the success stories, in the different Arab countries and in the region and so on and so far, so, capacity is there, and any contribution to that is more than welcome.
